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What's Better / Worse in 4th than 3.5 Ed?

Started by AAMCINCGuy, August 08, 2008, 11:30:08 PM

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AAMCINCGuy

I would like this to be a serious discussion of the differences and similarities between 4th Ed. and 3.5. I am not looking to hear (read) about all the complaints about not getting 4th or what was wrong with 3.5; this is suppose to be serious compare/contrast discussion of the primal differences between 4th and 3.5.

Ergo, What i can see as a stark difference between 4th and 3.5 is the artwork, to me at least, appears to be much more prominent. Though, through a quick browse of the PHB, I feel WotC should put out a PHB2 listing additional /optional races to play as found in the MM's and etc.

other than that first query about the 4th/3.5 differences:

How is character creation, faster or slower, simpler or complex, understandably easier or harder?

John Collins

To me the character creation process feels more like a video game.

The choices are rather channelled.

I think it is neat that there are spells/abilities that are at will, encounter and per day.

It makes a first level mage much more effective.

WHile the magic missile no longer automatically hits, he can do it every round and since it is versus the target's reflex, he still has pretty good odds hitting.

It is also rather interesting the way they broke things down and have rituals that characters can learn and do instead of the bulk of the spells being castable in a round or two.

All in all I think it does streamline it and make it easier for new players to learn.

I have done several demos of 4th edition and everyone has enjoyed it.

:P

jonathansample

As far as initial comparisons/contrasts between 4th Edition and 3.5, I can say that the feel of the latter has always been that of classic D&D with a fair bit of modernization while 4th, as John says, feels very similar to a video game. An article in a recent Knights of the Dinner Table, I think, said it best by saying that 4th Edition is a good game in itself, especially for folk new to the gaming hobby (most coming from the WoW generation), but it is not Dungeons and Dragons. It is merely Wizards of the Coast, the holders of the D&D license, applying a classic, respectable name to their new role playing system that really deserves a name of its own.

In regards to character creation, they have done a good job of making every class in 4th Edition feel exactly the same but with different names and "Power Sources." Fighters are basically Wizards with powers called "Exploits" instead of "Spells." It's almost insulting to an experienced gamer who has had the fortune to play the original D&D game, but that's why I say it's an ideal system for new gamers, when separated from the D&D name and its legacy of course.

In regard to the point John made about At-Will Powers, I'll say that it does make a 1st Level Mage very useful, but since the first time I read through the books I've had an issue with this Power System they've developed. Still using the spell caster example, while the old Mage spell system wasn't perfect, it added some challenge and required some skill to pull off a successful spell caster. You had accomplished something if you're Wizard made it out of the first 6 levels! Now PC's are hardly challenged at all. A 1st Level character now could wipe the floor with higher level characters from previous versions of D&D. Using Knights of the Dinner Table again, there was an article published that displayed a graph of character power as it increased through the various editions of D&D. They used the Fighter class as an example and based the challenge on the class' effectiveness against a group of goblins and how many could be killed by a 1st Level Fighter in each edition. The Fighter from 1st Edition could maybe kill 1-2 goblins before being overwhelmed, and as the graph went across the editions it rose steadily till it came to 4th. A 4th Edition, 1st Level Fighter could kill a number of goblins somewhere in the mid-20's! That's some ridiculous power at such a low level!

I could go on but I won't. I'm not playing 4th Edition myself. If there's any need for an improvement on 3.5 I think the guys at Paizo have done it best with their Pathfinder system. It balances out the classes without giving them crazy advantages and still maintains that good old D&D feel. Too bad Paizo doesn't own the Dungeons and Dragons license.